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Post by callmedangle on Apr 26, 2011 22:32:40 GMT -5
its hard to get everyone to agree on a set of rules, idk why the fps is such a big deal, im not scared to get shot by a 400fps at 50ft, but thats just me i guess
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Post by sdk1968 on Apr 27, 2011 7:38:54 GMT -5
You're seriously not coming to Scary Creek? I'd reply to the rest of the thread. But, I have a feeling it would go on forever....So, we'll just agree to disagree. and ever...  I think the biggest thing we are not agreeing on is the definition of control. At least we can agree that we can't spell duel correctly. RIG, sent ya a PM on SCary Creek... YEP your right i can debate anything from any angle FOREVER. its a skill.  ;D  we dont have to agree. your still in control. gotcha!!  spellin? yeah i type as i go... & dont proofread.. so you get what was really going thru my mind at the time... unfiltered one of the good things about this place is i can say whats on my mind and not have to worry about it. that makes it pretty relaxing. :-) oh and im a world class "thread jacker/derailer" LMAO now back to the thread... whats wrong with a gun 400 or less and a 50' MED? |
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Post by jonahm740 on Apr 27, 2011 9:33:58 GMT -5
Rig your second to last sentence was probably the most right on. I think ultimately what Kyle was trying to do was apply what is a successful formula based on the way AO uses the core rules like FPS and safety equipment. That isn't to say that AO has all the answers or is a flawless model of how to organize but being someone whose job it is to understand human dynamics I can tell you unequivocally human beings are naturally drawn to structure and order, period. Nobody is disagreeing that there SHOULD be a set of safety standards, it is simply what those standards should be and how they are decided on. A unilateral approach by anyone doesn't work but this thread is a great example of how a community ideally sets its own standards. Will everyone agree on how things are done? No. Will healthy productive debate such as is occurring here hopefully lay the foundation for a community based safety standard? I hope so. To build on what Kool-Aid said, the rules of the event will largely dictate who shows and who doesn't. If your cup of tea is full auto in safety glasses while using 475fps weapons and no MED fine, but don't be surprised when nobody but psychotic masochists show up to your game  . If you set the gear requirements as "Standard magazine only, authentic US and Soviet pattern, uber leet high speed low drag authentic setups of doom" again, don't be surprised if only stupidly wealthy "chairsofters" show up and you have more of a fashion show than a game. The Raiders do things at our events that some other fields don't (i.e. the bang bang/safety kill rule). The safety standard is set by AO (our home community) but the way we run our field and events are set by us. For example, if you are one who refuses to take bang bang kills you either choose to play by our rules or you choose to play somewhere else. Those are the differences I see between a uniformed FPS limit, ANZI rated eye wear etc. and something like grenade rules or safety kills. Finally you aren't going to make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. If you keep in mind that in life you will ALWAYS be compromising in one way or another you spend much less energy arguing why your way is the best and why..... Just my .02 |
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Post by sdk1968 on Apr 27, 2011 10:28:44 GMT -5
there is no way this wont sound like an ass kiss.....
Jonah, Kyle, OLDSPICE & the guys run a hell of a game. its VERY friendly to new people, not just experienced players.
EVERYONE has a chance to get a few kills and be killed while learning with out being talked down to.
this is crucial if your gonna grow and develop in the WV area. ya gotta bring all these players in from the backyard and get the people with snipers/springers and so on HOOKED on your events...
for that to happen they gotta be easy to attend, SIMPLE rules and a good plan/scenario for at least a couple of the matches.
personally the safety kill thing is pretty handy if your using MED's for FPS' but thts never a deal breaker for me... its a strategy changer. :-)
hey Jonah isnt a Psycotic masochist what the "weenie" over at AO called me? LMAO
i might say ouch or oh **** when you shoot me but im not gonna whine....
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Post by 79stang on Apr 27, 2011 13:37:00 GMT -5
OK, so I am really glad that this has created as much discussion as it has. Now we know that we need rules and to follow those rules to have a good and safe experience. The rules for games have already been posted on the site. www.wvairsoft.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rules&action=display&thread=2I was just trying to explain the importance of enforcing the rules and that it is safety that dictates them. If you do not wish to follow the base forum rules, then you should not post games on this forum. Your game rules can be more restrictive, full face masks for CQB for instance, but these are the minimum requirements. |
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Post by Dan aka Macgyver on Apr 27, 2011 14:59:23 GMT -5
ok im not saying alot im just watching and reading along but one thing i would like to point out. not one of you guys that are leading this discussion have been to a wvairsoft game and yet your talking about how much better AO's games are. come to one of our games before you tell me ho much better someone elses games are.
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Post by rig on Apr 27, 2011 18:04:08 GMT -5
Well, I'll just say. The rules are getting better. We have a ways to go though. I do believe the more fields that come along and th more field owners and hosts talk and discuss the rules the better it will get. We are going to have small private fields here for a long time with a lot of new people coming in. I think so far the new folks have moved along toward rules and safety as they have been educated. Things won't change overnight and I'm not really worried too much. I'd answer more posts but I'm wayyyy to tired.  |
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Post by jonahm740 on Apr 27, 2011 19:11:12 GMT -5
Actually stang was at a WV game that Cody hosted I believe last month? In addition several raiders are making the trip down to scary creek this sunday and I know several more will be at operation daemocles (or however it is spelled). NONE of the AO players have once intoned that our way is better or even anything remotely of the sort.
The praise that has been given to the Raiders games is from WVA players who have made the trip up. For you to make that comment is incredibly counter productive and harmful for the discussion. Do you know why we keep citing AO's rules and regs? Because it is a hugely successful community with well organized and maintained fields, something I know WVa could do as well.
Forgive us "high and mighty" Ohio players who are trying to be a part of building the WVa community. If you want to make this into an AO v. WV battle that's on you, but don't twist our words to suit your argument, it adds nothing to the discussion and muddies the issue.
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Post by sdk1968 on Apr 27, 2011 20:18:07 GMT -5
ok im not saying alot im just watching and reading along but one thing i would like to point out. not one of you guys that are leading this discussion have been to a wvairsoft game and yet your talking about how much better AO's games are. come to one of our games before you tell me ho much better someone elses games are. oh ok so THATS what you think was said? it wasnt, but how you take it is up to you. glad you know where people have played and not. they werent organized by you events, but i do remember you in the creek bottom for a few hours back in the snow...... and ive played with Tiernan, Joker, bossman and a host of others out on Jokers place. we even tried to get in on the Moundsville event... it was full. had several other farmland games in Wva as well. not one time did i say that ohio events were better. show me where its in one of my posts. are the Raiders events in particular well done? HELL YES. are they the ONLY people who can put on a good game? NO. im not a fan of AO and their "we rule over all bb's" attitude at all, any of the guys from OHIO can tell you that. as to the guys from Ohio who offered to help you out? hey bud if you didnt want help then all you had to do was say so. the guys from Ohio came on here as a courtesy to help you get some games going and actually bring players to your game. these guys travel and play all the time and bring 2-15 just depending on the set up and space. and unlike some of the other places we visit or play... the particular guys Ryan & me invited here(Kyle & Jonah) treat "strangers" & visitors to their games with class & patience. this whole Scary Creek thing got under way cause of Mike from Hobbytown telling me about it last year and me hounding people until Snakey(RYan... born/raised in ohio) decided to follow up on it with you since you actually live in WVA. dont you remember you & me talking about this in the snow with Ryan? when his gun was broke and the guy got shot in the eye? you were pretty convinced that the guy would never let anyone play there. this whole discussion shows why its moving at a "stoned turtle pace" for WVA airsoft. your getting offended too easy & taking everything personal. its that whole control thing mentioned earlier...... you seem to think that anyone making a suggestion is challenging your authority & control.. thats gonna make it tough to have games with new incoming people with various/different personality's & experience levels... its why im glad to just show up and play if i like whats happening and skip it if i dont. this Ohio guy wont make any more suggestions or comments unless we are talking about guns or women. its your boat & your the captain. |
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Post by callmedangle on Apr 28, 2011 0:29:46 GMT -5
cqb city rules on fps and med is max 400fps and 25ft, and anywhere under 25ft u gotta pull out pistol if you all are trying to change rules and what not, id say base them off theres considering they have the worlds largest indoor arena lol www.cqbcity.com/catalog/rules.phpim prepared to be flammed haha |
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Post by Dan aka Macgyver on Apr 28, 2011 0:57:51 GMT -5
and its not my boat. i dont own it and i dont have the last say. im just a voice.
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Post by sdk1968 on Apr 28, 2011 5:50:59 GMT -5
IM NOT a member of RUINS RAIDERS or any other team. so any opinion stated here by me is NOT a representation of RR... its mine.
they have invited us to play with them on numerous occasions & we do. but we are guests with them.
as far as the rules go? ive always said the HOST makes the rules and you either like them & play or dont.
lets get back on topic....
yep scary creek had been played at before, several times.. think about that.
what went wrong?
why couldnt it become a regular event?
why did he not want airsofters there?
what has changed in the set up THIS TIME?
were the "issues" taken care of?
^^^^^ THOSE are the things that should be looked at.
crap. just broke my own statement and gave input. last post for me... done.
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Post by jonahm740 on Apr 28, 2011 8:54:16 GMT -5
I am going to try and keep this post civil and as non-confrontational as humanly possible.
First of all Dan, while you claim to be "just a voice" I would like to point out that after your name is a giant red ADMINISTRATOR complete with five giant red stars. By virtue of that alone (nevermind your reputation and establishment in the actual community) what you say carries a lot of weight to outsiders, period. For you to wade into the middle of a completely productive and civil forum and throw a statement out based on nothing such as, I don't know this:
"ok im not saying alot im just watching and reading along but one thing i would like to point out. not one of you guys that are leading this discussion have been to a wvairsoft game and yet your talking about how much better AO's games are. come to one of our games before you tell me ho much better someone elses games are."
doesn't seem like you are really interested in productive dialogue does it. Take that how you will.
Bolushie, in all fairness I would hope that if Dan was really trying to say that it should be up to senior members to set the regs and precedents he would have said it. I don't expect that when I offer suggestions or feedback that I be allowed into the inner circle as a policy maker on the boards, I am simply offering suggestions or feedback to add to the pool of information, nothing more.
I have spent enough time on the boards and spoken with enough members to get the picture that as a whole the AO community is not thought well of for reasons that go back a long way. As previously stated, and I will restate for emphasis, AO is a hugely successful forum with a large number of established and well run/maintained field. Do they have all the answers and are they the only people that can host events? Of course not. Whatever beef you have with AO and it's members Dan is your problem, don't try to make it the boards.
I won't speak for Kyle as he can do that himself. I post and lurk these boards because I love the game of airsoft, period. When I saw that there was another community to the south I was thrilled to get to play with different people on new fields. I am not airsoft jesus and so I know that I don't have all the answers but I am happy to share what I have learned with others, especially given the situation you guys are in, in the hopes of being a member of another great airsoft community. I realize that some of you don't know me from adam and that is fine, but I have met SDK, Snakey and DemonDave and they know me well enough that egotistical is the last thing that I am. When I cite things the Ruins Raiders do, or the way we host events it is not because we are bragging or saying we do it better than you, it is because we have experience in this area that I thought might be beneficial to help the community.
I will happily keep posting on the boards, and I will happily keep offering suggestions and feedback. One of these days I'll even make it to a WVA game (Sunday games are MUCH harder for me to make it to because my babysitter works her day job Sundays.). Until then try and focus on what is for the good of WVA rather than stupid counter productive nonsense like this.
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Post by callmedangle on Apr 28, 2011 10:46:49 GMT -5
whats the point in even talking about ao vs wva
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Post by jonahm740 on Apr 28, 2011 11:18:18 GMT -5
ask Dan, he's the one that brought it up.
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;D 
. If you set the gear requirements as "Standard magazine only, authentic US and Soviet pattern, uber leet high speed low drag authentic setups of doom" again, don't be surprised if only stupidly wealthy "chairsofters" show up and you have more of a fashion show than a game. 
