Importance of Rules

[79stang]

Hey all,

I know I am one of those dreaded Airsoft Ohio guys ;D and I know you do things a little bit differently, but I want to discuss a few things that have been popping up.

Shooting glasses

Here is a repost of a reply that I submitted to another member on their thread. This is not to call them out, but I know that a lot of players still use shooting glasses for airsoft. They are not safe. You only have one pare of eyes and you need to protect them.

Hey I play to have fun too, but its not an excuse not to be safe. Full seal goggles are safer than shooting glasses, fact. The eye is the only part of the body that can be seriously damaged without the chance of repair, fact. The way to treated my advice tells me that your "events" are not something I would want to go to or take part in. Also, just because its on Govt land doesnt mean parents will not sue YOU!

So next time someone give you advice, especially someone who hosts awesome, safe events, just say "Thanks for the tip." Then you can keep the "I dont care" attitude to yourself.

I am writing this not to be mean to you, but to try to show that your actions reflect on the community. Lets say that one of your friends loses an eye to airsoft and your the one who shot at him, missed, but a BB hit a tree and ricochet back to hit the back of his shooting glasses and hit the eye. How would you feel about that? Would they still be your friend? Do you honestly think his parents wouldnt sue you? Then there is the whole can of worms where this would come out in the media and reflect very badly on the community.

If you guys want to play in your backyard thats one thing, but the Mods of the forum and most of us serious players want to move forward with legal fields, accountability, and a community that works to improve the sport. Again, I am not trying to belittle you, make fun of you, or anything like that. I am trying to get you to think above the group of you and your friends and think about how your actions could impact the rest of the airsoft community.

FPS Limits

With the upcoming game at Scary Creek there has been some discussion about these. While I personally think that 450fps and full auto is a little high, the fact that we are going to be play primarily in the woods really means that if I get hit with a 450fps gun that means at 100 ft its like getting shot at 50ft with a 350fps gun. I also understand that many of the Chinese clones shoot over 400fps out of the box and with the lack of stores and techs it is hard for a new player to downgrade their own spring.

Now, with that being said, just because your gun might shoot over the 400 mark this means that you must pay extra attention to your MEDs (Minimum Engagement Distance). If you think you are too close you probably are. If you have the drop on someone and they are a little bit out of the safety killzone, go ahead and call it. This doesnt mean you can walk around the woods yelling safety kill. I know that I would appreciate not getting shot that close from a hot gun. Now, if someone makes a safety kill, EXCEPT IT! Dont be like, "I dont play with those" You are acting immature, its not a question of manhood, its a safety thing. If you want to host an event where without MEDs, thats fine, but you cant post it here as per forum rules.

Center Mass
Make sure you are aiming for center mass. If you shoot someone in the gear, it doesnt hurt, but the can usually hear it. If they dont call their hits, dont automatically assume they are cheating. Rather aim for an arm or a leg so that they can feel it. Also, no head shots, UNLESS that is the only they they are exposing. In these instances aim higher so if it hits them in the face it will be on the goggles or hat/helmet, thus you try to avoid the teeth. Airsoft BBs can hurt, just use your judgement and think where you wouldnt mind getting hit and where you wouldnt like to get hit

Red Rags
Use them! They make identifying KIAs much easier. Also if you are pinned down, then get hit. Hunker down and yell hit a few times, get your red rag out and wave it all around. This will save you from getting lit up. Also, if you are firing full auto at someone remember you are sending approximately 15bbs at them a sec. So if you keep lighting them up it will probably piss them off, then problems will arise. Finally, remember it takes a second to get those red rags out. Its not like video games where the little triangles on our heads go from red to black. If you think they are hit, give them a sec. If they shoot back, keep going.

Insurance
We are trying to build up legitimate fields in WV. I know that some of you dont want to do the whole pay to play thing and airsoft can be fun in the woods or a backyard. The problem is that without insurance it is very risky to allow people to play a sport where they could get hurt. Insurance allows for us to have fun, but protects those who own the field encase someone is injured. Also, building structures and using props in a game, cost money. The field fees help pay for this. Scary Creek is around 15 bucks a head, the Raiders games are 15 a head. We both have nice fields and insurance. Plus we generally will have higher turnout numbers. Finally, if we want to truly promote the sport you will need to show parents and the public that we are more then young kids playing in backyards with Walmart springers (if you are, no offense). If the sport is to survive we need places to play. We need to be responsible and we need to work together to turn airsoft in WV into what it can be.

I hope that I have explained my position and illustrated what we as a community are moving towards. I know that not everyone will agree with me, but you must realize that we need to have these rules and regs if we are truely succeed. Thank you.

[rig]

First I'll comment on the shooting glasses.
If it were up to me. Everybody would have goggles. We aren't quite there yet. But, we are getting close. Too many people get caught up in thinking eyepro is expensive and it can be. But there are affordable options out there that are good quality. Keeping your eyes safe only costs about the price of two bags of bbs.

FPS rules. This is where two worlds come together. 400 with .25 is everyday for me. Most don't run that high. You know it when you run into one though. I personally blame the airsoft companies that feed our American bigger, badder, faster mentality. MEDS really need to be observed though.

Center Mass.
Agreed. Don't shoot me in the head if you don't have to. It hurts. Don't shoot me in the small of the back either. Im sensitive. It really does take effort not to shoot toward the head though. You do actually need to be concious of it.

Red Rags.
If you don't have a red rag. Don't get mad if you get shot. Don't get mad if they can't see your rag either....

Insurance and a legit field.
I think once folks figure out how much fun a good field is. There will be more effort towards that.

I think most will agree with the your post. Even the Airsoft Ohio part.

[callmedangle]

glad i could help set an example

[rig]

I don't know if an example is the correct word. Maybe a conversation that lead to more talk. Remember, there are a lot of new and old people coming together here. Conversation and different points of view are important. The more we come together on our views of the game. The better organized we are. We can't get there without talking. Some things people will never agree on. Others we can.

[callmedangle]

well he used me as an example, by what he said

[sdk1968]

and your not bleeding or physically injured in anyway.... so is it really that big of a deal?


read on:


actually this conversation started on another forum about another field and i jumped in it & on it... so lets pick it up here.

Kyle<

yeah we wear goggles. yeah they suck. we still wear them. they still suck. rules are rules. would it be great if everyone had the same rules? HELL YES.

will that happen? HELL NO.


you want the real reason? cause i can give it to you. you may not like it... so be careful what you ask for.

the Raiders have very simple rules. some are really good. some are just ones we go by. no big deal, if i wanna play with the Raiders i go by their rules and dont complain.

same thing for AO..... lots of opinionated assholes there.... but hey its THEIR SHOW so i play by THEIR RULES.


now about that standardizing rules: its not gonna happen because of this one simple factor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. CONTROL

oh yes i said that word. its all about CONTROL. who the boss is and what that person in charge wants it to be.

people have different rules from others because they want it to be THEIR WAY & not someone elses'

simple as that.


its evident in every event you go to, on every website you visit.

people will make the rules different just because they are the boss and they can.


does it really hurt the hobby on expansion if they are not relatively close? SURE. are you gonna change that? NO.


lets break this down a little and compare.


most places chrono with 20's ..... regardless of the FPS limits. yet most of us who have played "some" dont actually use 20's in play... its just about a baseline

whats wrong with 350 or less for CQB and 400 or less for all purpose stuff? NOTHING.

the issue is people get guns and want to use them, and they want to use the same gun & ammo all the time. so do they get some POS 300' FPS gun & then get roasted on a game where there is no cover cause their bb is still floating along when your or me blast them with a gun thats 30% faster? cause thats what happens.

lets use Kyle & me as an example here cause we are cool with each other and wont get upset.

me? my guns run 380ish on 20 grns..... yet i play with 25's ALL THE TIME. so in reality im 'slower" than that.. BUT when it hits you and your ammo is still floating in the breeze.. was your gun really faster? yet i have no MED issues to deal with.

Kyles: well he's running about 450 ish now and can only go semi auto.... is he really at a disadvantage? the MED takes over here.... see? he cant shoot me at 50' now & he knows that... & he cant keep me pinned with FA cover fire either (if he's being honest & Kyle is)... so who has the advantage there? depends on how you play the game.

TACTICS vs EQUIPMENT! thats what makes or breaks these games.

that brings us to the statement below.

semi only above the limits....... how many times have we all been lit up by someone on FA who was supposed to be Semi only? happens EVERY GAME.

head shots..... guess what? this is a waste of time to even say this. your going to shoot what you can, although i do have to admit i aim at the top of the head and avoid the mouth if possible. but to pretend that your not gonna shoot someone in the head is just bull**** and totally a dishonest approach in a game thats supposed to be based on honesty.

NON CALLs: it happens in every game. if someone no calls, im gonna just light them up no matter what. again people pretending they are above doing that are just fooling themselves.

goggles goggles goggles...... they still suck. even tho most of us use them, when was the last time anyone really looked to see if you had Z87.10 goggles verses ski goggles or paintball goggles? so just how safe are most people?

red rags: this should be the easiest of all rules to have. yet people for the control factor want to argue about the SIZE & shade of them....

insurance: just like on the AO argument. this is not a simple pay to play persons problem... this is for an event sponsor or field owner to deal with. when you try to put this on simple show up and play people your totally killing your participation.

NOT EVERYONE wants to be the boss. lots of people are perfectly fine to pay someone else to do this. thats why guys like Kyle, Jonah, MiYagi, Straightfire and so on host events.

whining about being shot: there should be a rule against this. we had this discussion the other day and it turned into a real crapfest. come on people, this isnt a real bullet and your not really shot... so if you cant take being shot then DONT PLAY. there was a "few" people who took exception to that statement and said that people like me shouldnt play this game with that attitude.

guess what? nothings changed. if you cant take being shot by a plastic BB or want to gripe about the pain/damage/injury that can be inflicted upon you from playing this sport than you have no business playing and should stay home with your Wizards of Warcraft video games where nothing hurts.

wear safety gear. wear gloves. wear clothes. wear a cup. someone else's lack of preparation doesnt make it my job to baby sit them. BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOURSELF.


this hobby is taking off and some of the original people in it will not like it. thats just what happens in any sport/hobby. things change as they grow. this will evolve and hopefully some remotely uniform rules will gradually be accepted.

but everyone is not gonna like them and some people will quit because of it. thats the way life is.

[79stang]

Apr 26, 2011 12:20:35 GMT -5 sdk1968 said:

whining about being shot: there should be a rule against this.

Best rule idea EVER!

[callmedangle]

no its not a big deal i simply said "glad i could help set an example" lol
i agree on everything you said

[rig]

Actually...
The standardization and control thing I don't completely agree with. Most of the time rules are discussed. Even on AO. The base rules set up on AO were discussed and I'm sure argued over before they were set. I would like to see (once more fields are set) the field owners and Hosts work out a more stable set of rules. That will take time and a lot of effort though.

[sdk1968]

LMAO

standardization and could go into a completely different discussion that we could have a great time with but lets save that for another time. :-)

control on the other hand is what every organizer of an event is after, thats why they are the organizer...

IM THAT WAY at our weapons building party's..... its no different at RC car races, airsoft, football...

people run events the way THEY want to. that means they put THEIR mark on it.

if you know and understand/accept that going in, then your not going to get caught up in all that other petty bull**** that the people struggling to prove "their the boss" have and you get to have a better time than them. :-)

heres a good example from THIS site & i'll leave out the names...

someone complained about how something was set up.

there was a couple of one line posts about it back and forth. an attempt at a discussion on it.

the next answer from someone else was: IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT USE IT.

now while there was nothing wrong with that answer, it was establishing "im in control."

just like the struggle you guys had to establish THIS site verses the "old" site. it was all about CONTROL.

you guys started this one so you could be in control. & you are.

its not a "bad" thing. its just a statement of the fact.

someone else being in control and growing a site is great for me, as im a casual player and have plenty of stuff to "control" on our sites.

people can either like it or start their own site & put up their own money.

it really is that simple.

[rig]

Still don't agree.

If you don't put on a good event no one will show up. So you need the feeback and input from the players. If you are in to events because you want to control it. Your events will suck.
Not that your building parties suck. Just applying it to events.

The other arguement is taken out of context and to tell you the truth. I'm a little offended that you threw that up to me. But, I'll live.

Not to mention, the person that made this site and paid any fees associated with it is actually not in control of the day to day or rule set. Actually, I don't think he even showed up until a week or two after the site was built.

I agree with most of what you said. Just not that. Maybe we'll just have to have a pistol dual Sunday to iron it out.

[sdk1968]

rotflmao

dont get offended bud. nothing said was a negative to you or anyone else.

you bet your hiney that im in control of ANY firearms building party's at my place and they go by the rules set by the HOST (me)... ive got deputy's, statey's and military guys at my party's and im leaving nothing to chance or be questionable..... no matter who agrees, likes or dislikes. they sign the waiver or they dont come.

as Kyle said the host is liable.. so they make the rules.

why would this be offensive to anyone? as mentioned before: if i dont like the rules i dont go.

its more important to have consistent rules that people know how to work with than constantly changing ones.

input is great when its actually taken seriously and not just threw aside.

there have been lots of suggestions to help you guys out over the last 5 weeks by various people. the only one that got any attention or real consideration was the FPS suggestions, cause you just werent gonna have but about 4 people show up the way it was going.


as to the out of context ? i left out who said what... it wasnt 'thrown up at you".... i didnt even disagree with the point.

but if that wasnt an example of someone saying "who" was in control & letting it be known? then it was the best bluff ive read in a while.

it wasnt directed at me and even if it had been it would have meant nothing in the real world, a person either liked it or didnt. no blood was shed.

as to the pistol dual? sure no problem at all and i'll not whine when you shoot me. :-) but your gonna have to come to the Raiders game to do it, as thats my commitment for the month of May (i only get 1 game per month)

Rome wasnt built in a day and no matter how good this first outing goes for you guys the next one will be better. the woods there should be a nice place to play.

[rig]

You're seriously not coming to Scary Creek?

I'd reply to the rest of the thread. But, I have a feeling it would go on forever....So, we'll just agree to disagree.

and ever...

I think the biggest thing we are not agreeing on is the definition of control. Atleast we can agree that we can't spell duel correctly.

[Kool-Aid]

Why not just reflect rules off of other airsoft groups. One set standardization of rules to accomidate millions of players compaired to a few hundred seems to work for the rest of the worlds airsoft communities that seem to be progressing fairly well.

Bickering about useless crap is not going to get you anywhere but p'd off. I also believe there is a difference in "event" rules and game rules. Event rules can conisist of punching your hostage in the face if thats what the host says is a go or not, a little extreme but you get the point lol. Game rules consist of fps limits, eye protection, death rags...ect. The standard saftey procedures of any airsoft game, war, op or whatever the case may be.

Your not going to go to a big OP and play without eye protection or shoot someone from 5ft at 500fps. Your ass will be canned in a heartbeat and your not going to touch a dead player back to life when the event rules state that u have to bandage and then unbandage them back up.

Get together with people in control of what ever is going on, set down and privatley discuss how you are going to improve and operate this setup and then post a once and for all final set standard of rules so other players can get used to playing and working together by those rules. Also airsoft is one game that rules do make it more challenging and fun so their is no harm in doing it right.

Hope my wall of text made some sense and had some positive input on this thread.

[rig]

If it were only that easy.

Safety rules should be what strive to agree on. Smaller rule sets still should be left to the individual organizer so they can effectively run the senario. We are getting there. We just have 3 different areas to bring together here. AO rules are different from what has been accepted here and some southern rules are different from the other two. We have to bicker a little bit or we'll never reach compromise. Things have come a long way though.